tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3319786799012800176.post5475054107878285438..comments2023-10-13T03:51:03.655-04:00Comments on Magma Cum Laude: Close encountersJessica Ballhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13117925212295349320noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3319786799012800176.post-15358211228180766322009-06-12T13:33:55.363-04:002009-06-12T13:33:55.363-04:00everyone knows the earth is only 6,000 years old.everyone knows the earth is only 6,000 years old.GeologyJoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07212488235413098715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3319786799012800176.post-74331371694558290322008-09-15T11:21:00.000-04:002008-09-15T11:21:00.000-04:00The James Skehan stack:-"Creation Science: Bad Sci...The James Skehan stack:<BR/>-"Creation Science: Bad Science, Bad Religion!" in the October 1999 issue of Geotimes (v. 44, no. 10)<BR/>-"The Age of the Earth, of Life, and of Mankind: Geology and Biblical Theory versus Creationism" in a book entitled "Science and Creation: Geological, Theological, and Educational Perspectives" edited by Robert W. Hanson, Macmillian Publishing, (no year on my copy...)<BR/>-"Theological Basis for a Judeo-Christian Position on Creationism" in Journal of Geological Education, 1983, v. 31, p. 307 - 314 along with a letter to the editor in 1984, v. 32, p. 143 and a response on p. 144 - 146<BR/>-"Modern Science and the Book of Genesis" a booklet from the National Science Teachers Association, 1986<BR/><BR/>I have copies of each and can make pdf's if anyone has trouble finding a specific article (at least, I think that's legal...) Email me at planelight at gmailEllihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18333469410211681553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3319786799012800176.post-9792577125780696692008-09-12T04:30:00.000-04:002008-09-12T04:30:00.000-04:00As a student of geology here in Spain, I'm very us...As a student of geology here in Spain, I'm very used to hear ring my door early on sundays, with people coming to give me some information about their religion, and sometimes i'm very tired from field trips to hear things like "the apocalipsis is good". I really prefer a non-apocalyptic view and being a "sinner". Anyway, sooner or after I'll be death, and no religion can give me a solution for this :)Nahumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14534896673334601776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3319786799012800176.post-88634143818383251752008-09-11T20:51:00.000-04:002008-09-11T20:51:00.000-04:00Elli said, "Just because someone is religious does...<I>Elli said, "Just because someone is religious doesn't mean they believe in creationism!"</I><BR/><BR/>Exactly!Silver Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03131032620978696727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3319786799012800176.post-60358581955939885342008-09-11T19:55:00.000-04:002008-09-11T19:55:00.000-04:00Elli, can you give some citations and/or links to ...Elli, can you give some citations and/or links to those papers by Skehan? That would be a nice reference to have around when I discuss this issue with people.<BR/><BR/>Also, I think you're misunderstanding the arguments that are being made if you think atheists are asserting that you must be a creationist to be religious: It's more likely that they're wondering how the people can reconcile being in a field where your work is based entirely around empirical evidence with having religious beliefs that have no empirical evidence to support them. But, that is a discussion for another time and place.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08128159006302248607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3319786799012800176.post-78541541321562989852008-09-11T19:49:00.000-04:002008-09-11T19:49:00.000-04:00This is annoying (I've had the same experience, ev...This is annoying (I've had the same experience, even without mentioning my major) but there are a few things to remember to help keep your blood pressure from getting <I>too</I> high.<BR/><BR/>I doubt that they give a shit about your being a geologist in particular - I've noted that they seem to think that 'bringing down' a scientist, ANY brand of legitimate scientist as being major God points or something to that effect. Lee Strobel tells a story in his book "The Trouble With Physics" to this effect. After finding out that he's a scientist, they insist (and this is a Canadian group) that dinosaurs are still alive and hiding deep in the jungles of Africa and that they have 'Biblical biologists' searching for them. <BR/><BR/>Another thing to remember is that they don't necessarily view you as a 'godless heathen' if you're a scientist (though, if they're familiar with geology, I'll admit that this is likely the case) - as someone else noted, in their mind, it typically doesn't matter if you're a Christian, Muslim, what-have-you or not unless you are part of their fundamentalist variety.<BR/><BR/>Good luck dealing with the annoyance.<BR/><BR/>And since people are telling their stories, I think I'll give a short version of mine. There's a church in the city I live in that specializes in taking drug abusers, prostitutes, etc. off the street and giving them a home/chance for detox/making life changes (good) while turning them into fundamentalist Christians aimed at trying to sell shitty bracelets to people (bad). I was walking to a book store one day when I was accosted by one - after a few minutes of arguing that I did not want to buy one, but politely wishing him luck in garnering support for other people he asked me if I 'believed in Jesus.' This left me really pissed off since I didn't even have the option to lie because the angle he was obviously going for was 'If you love Jesus, you should give me money because he wants you to help the poor!' so I responded with a 'no'. He spent the next ten minutes preaching to me about Hell and his fear of my going there if I didn't convert. I had to bite my tongue so hard it nearly bled to keep myself from grinning/laughing. Here was a grown man, throwing HELL at me, another grown man, as if I was a child that would automatically believe in such a thing simply because someone told me it existed. It just seemed so....childish. I actually felt sorry for him afterwards.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08128159006302248607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3319786799012800176.post-73276364957610324162008-09-11T17:35:00.000-04:002008-09-11T17:35:00.000-04:00Having taught in areas where churches outnumber ba...Having taught in areas where churches outnumber bars for a number of years, I've actually gotten this a number of times not just from random strangers, but also from students forced to take intro science classes. Even in physical geology, we talk about time, so its hard for the evangelical christians not to come face to face with an issue they never wanted to address. I have come up with a few ways to handle it:<BR/>1) Announce that whatever the student's personal beliefs, we will be going by the book's determination of the Earth's age & various events. I emphasize that I'm not trying to "convert" them to my thinking.<BR/>2) If a student still decides to challenge me, I ask them to come and talk to me after class so as not to turn a discussion of the age of the sea floor into a creationism vs. evolution argument. If they follow up with a visit, I listen politely and then explain that we're going with the book. I have been told I'm going to hell at this point.<BR/>3) For the student who starts to break down, admit they like geology, but can't deal with the conflict between religion and science, I actually have a packet of four articles that range from two pages to 20+ pages about the subject. The articles were written by James Skehan, who is an emeritus professor at Boston College and a Jesuit priest. Now, evangelical Christians may have issues with Catholics -- especially Jesuits -- but it at least gives them a chance to see that geologist doesn't mean you have to be atheist. <BR/><BR/>In some ways, there is also a bit of reverse prejudice in some geology conferences I've attended. I've seen people who've been fairly open about their Christianity, Jewishness, etc. be challenged as to how they balance that and science. For pete's sake, you just have to look at the blogosphere to see that viewpoint. Just because someone is religious doesn't mean they believe in creationism!<BR/><BR/>Ok, enough from me on this. Personal pet peeve.Ellihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18333469410211681553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3319786799012800176.post-86070485658826535272008-09-11T04:25:00.000-04:002008-09-11T04:25:00.000-04:00I'm a cave guide, and people have asked me if I be...I'm a cave guide, and people have asked me if I believe all the dates I say, and what if God planted old things, to tempt us.<BR/>I mumble and look awkward until they wear themselves out.<BR/>It's an intrusive question that ends badly on all accounts.Helena Malloneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15002245476019785194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3319786799012800176.post-14746299605428246722008-09-10T22:05:00.000-04:002008-09-10T22:05:00.000-04:00Most proselytizing I've been on the receiving end ...Most proselytizing I've been on the receiving end of came directly from knocks on my door by 2-3 particular Christian sects, other than once by my young niece who had been going to kindergarten in a church school and was quite taken with all the stories, as many children are. I haven't gotten any, so far, as the direct result of being a geologist.<BR/><BR/>I think it's good, usually, to take the unwanted approach as lightly as possible and to remember that a lot of scientists try hard to convince other people that the scientific way is right or best. Religion and science aren't always in conflict, although many people see it that way.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes, though, you can't get away, like when you take a tour of the Mormon Temple in SLC - then it doesn't matter whether you're a scientist or not, or even of another Christian sect - you will get the whole story. That happened to me last year; I thought it best to just let them tell me everything they thought was important, and fortunately got away without having to exchange email (!).Silver Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03131032620978696727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3319786799012800176.post-13477674408486370912008-09-10T19:47:00.000-04:002008-09-10T19:47:00.000-04:00Great post.When I was living in Colorado during my...Great post.<BR/><BR/>When I was living in Colorado during my master's degree, I had a Jehovah's Witness knock on my door ... I was living solo at that point and must've been bored, so I invited him in. When it was revealed that I was a geologist, he steered the conversation in the direction of the age of the Earth and all that. Much like your story above, I was very civil and so was he ... we agreed to disagree ... I saw no point in trying to persuade him about radiometric dating and such. It was a weird feeling indeed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3319786799012800176.post-15650345748554485952008-09-10T18:17:00.000-04:002008-09-10T18:17:00.000-04:00been there.Try being a HS biology and geology teac...been there.<BR/><BR/>Try being a HS biology and geology teacher and not getting those lectures. After all Christianity was founded to be somewhat evangelical. I just tell them that I am studying natural phenomenon and that their faith should be the assurance of things hoped for and the conviction of things not seen (Heb, 11:1) That the God of the Bible pretty much tells us that if we can see it then its not faith, so stop looking and believe. I then end with "you know, the church thought Galileo was all wrong too"Geology Happenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17009558103508195084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3319786799012800176.post-54678443363456325082008-09-10T14:51:00.000-04:002008-09-10T14:51:00.000-04:00Haha, oh man! I've had a similar thing happen to m...Haha, oh man! I've had a similar thing happen to me *in the field*. I was installing a radio networked seismometer on the side of a rode over looking Los Angeles. We were trying to do a test to get signals from the San Fernando valley, over the Santa Monica mountains to the UCLA campus.<BR/><BR/>So I'm on the side of a road setting up this antenna with a laptop, walkie talkie, tools, binoculars and such. This car pulls over and an older gentleman gets out and inquires about what I'm doing. I give him this excited and brief lecture on seismology and how we're testing a system to remotely (and cheaply!) send seismic data.<BR/><BR/>The guy nods. Pauses for a second and says, "that's pretty great. But you know what you guys should really be studying?"<BR/><BR/>"Oh no," I thought.<BR/><BR/>"The power of the Lord!" And then he goes on for 15 minutes giving me a lecture about how it made a difference in his life, etc, etc, etc. Fortunately, he gave me no literature.Dave S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05302179367621214705noreply@blogger.com